ANARCHIST COOKBOOK selection Crimethinc 2004

they still are really cheap.and i understand why they would do it. it's easier and provides enough sustain to keep producing. "i'm not saying i would do it, but i understand."

Regarding the above description, I don't think they would oppose sharing of their information. It costs money to produce books, and therefore they should recoup in sales of such.

To be successful in establishing anarcho primitivism / syndicalism, Anarchists must first understand that we are at war against 1st, civilization and 2nd, our oppressors... To win this war, we must our rival's tools against them... (capitalism, media, pr, etc)

This doesn't mean playing the same old game and creating a happy pony show for everyone, but it does mean you have to be realistic. This is no time for strict ideals, it is a time for rational thinking... Trust me, they are reaching more people by offering such an attractive site and SELLING book, of which they barely make a profit.

If I am wrong, please explain.

p.s. i typed this after having not slept all night. please forgive the missing words and errors in grammar.

The distinction here, I think, is not Crimethinc's ability to do Anarchist outreach or help further our general cause of state smashing, but that their methods of participation in Capitalism give them an unfairly loud voice WITHIN the radical community.

While many of us don't have a problem with "exchange" or the "market" in general terms, we take issue with CERTAIN WAYS of participating in exchange economies.

While Crimethinc is technically in support of anti-copyright, they're not behaving in the spirit of freedom of information. While they possess perfect original PDFs of their books and magazines, they refuse to upload or them on (a paltry ten second task).

There was a big debate about this back in November on a couple sites.

CrimethInc's justification was:

1. They believed preserving the artistic integrity of the physical book reading "experience" was more important than idealism.

2. They needed to make money and felt that if people could fully preview the informational content of their books BEFORE buying them then fewer people would.

For some of us #2 was the whole friggin point! If you can't make money off of your actual commodities and/or donations from those who appreciate your ideas then your ideas don't deserve to be backed by a huge pile of money.

I more or less support Crimethinc, but like the others who objected, I'm wary of the power and influence their money has granted them OVER the radical movement. As the above torrent says, if that money was unjustly earned then (i.e. by effectively keeping secrets thanks to the present culture of copy-hostile Capitalism) then some of the power they exert is "unjustly quired."

I get where you're coming from, and i would agree with you in several other cases regarding other forms of media, but i feel you are really being destructive when it comes to this issue. Crimethinc books are all self published, their printed in a relatively environmentally friendly fashion (as far as books go), and literally cost like $5. Crimethinc isn't making any tremendous profits and also funds progressive activities like the crimethinc converge.
You are also looking at the issue from too narrow of a perspective. You make the claim that Crimethinc. somehow has too much influence over the radical movement, this is ridiculous on so many levels.
1) as "radicals" you should be able to decide what you read and what information you agree with. The fact that Crimething is a somewhat successful publishing operation doesn't mean that it's brainwashing the entire radical movement or something like that. If you believe that, you truly have little faith in the movement.
2) What about the effects the information has on people outside the movement. I know I personally wouldn't consider myself an anarchist today if I didn't read Days of War Nights of Love back when i was 15. Even when I was 15 I didn't agree with every fucking detail of the book, but it truly changed the way i think.

in conclusion Crimethinc is fully justified in not making their books readily available in the E-Book format. Stop acting like Crimethinc is some big publishing corporation who's making millions off the sale of anarchist literature and films.

Fact of the matter is money makes some voices louder than others and while our movement is wonderful, it's not perfect. Crimethinc helps propel certain positions and perspectives into an almost party line status, or at least far more prominence than they would otherwise be. There's plenty of folks for whom Crimethinc has almost a monopoly on the political anarchist material they read. This is because Crimethinc can saturate the scene with volume and quality thanks to their money to such a degree that other voices are drowned out.

I've watched it happen. Crimethinc started softly pushing an anti-civ line prominently in their dominant material and anti-civ perspectives became more mainstream in the movement. To the point where if you're near an anarchist demographic that crimethinc monopolizes, then anti-civ is passively considered to BE anarchism. Because they've never encountered anything else anarchist that compares to the quality and quantity of Crimthinc. And they often swallow the anti-civ line without even the barest analytical thought. (Which at least the Fifth Estate era anarcho-primitivists had.)

This is just an example, but money does transform into influence. We aren't all perfect. And it's not like Crimethinc encourages serious engagement, analysis or debate. They have positions and opinions to push. And they're willing to do anything that's effective.

I actually agree with what you're saying, it seems recently Deriick Jensen has become almost an anarchists celebrity. And looking back on it Crimethinc's own literature does encourage plagiarism of all sorts. The only real difference of opinion I do have with you is how Crimethinc somehow has too much influence in the movement. Crimethinc. is successful in publishing lots of books because people enjoy reading them and purchase them. I feel that it's better to aid any anarchist book collective whether it be AK press, crimethic, or microcosm, as opposed to try to hurt them due to the fact that they all seem to be dedicated to the movement and are fairly successful in opening peoples minds and bringing them into the movement. If people within the movement can't make up their own minds on the issues and form their opinions based on the writings of the publisher who prints the most books, then we're in serious trouble. Really it's not a big deal that the book is online, before i bought the book, i downloaded a scanned copy about 2 years ago, i just don't feel that our goal as anarchists should be to hurt independent anarchist book publishers.

1. When did anarchism become some fucking club? There are Baptists, Muslims, Jews, Catholics, Liberals, Conservatives, Republicans, Democrats, Greens, Libertarians, Progressives, Anarcho-Primitivists, (pause for breath...) Anarcho-Syndicalists, Anarcho-Capitalists, Socialists, Activists, Environmentalists, Dendrophilians (look it up), and so on forever...

We shouldn't waste time in quarrel with one another (one shouldn't waste their time at an anarchist gathering talking about how one group is doing things wrong)... The point is to spread the information and work together (no matter who the fuck you are)...

My point being... Share the shit. Who gives a fuck if they want you to or not.


2. Is there a problem with having anarchist celebrities?

1)wurd
2)no, unless we're talking about Against Me!

I don't really have a problem with sharing crimethinc's work nor do i think crimethinc really does, i just don't think we should aim to hurt or protest against small anarchist book collectives which is what i felt like this torrent was aiming to do.